Balancing Acts ( Aired 08-05-25) Estate Planning with Heart: Chris Ndo on Turning Wills and Trusts

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of Balancing Acts. I'm your host, Linda Hamilton, a CPA certified exit planning advisor and a systemologist. Balancing Acts is your guide to grow a profitable, resilient business while not burning out. And we want to look at every area of business. And while the numbers matter, the story behind the numbers and all the things that profitability affects are equally important because that's where clarity and strategy come from. We're. I'm pleased to introduce our guest today, Chris Nudo, the founder of a law firm, Integrity. I love the name. Who brings heart and strategy to a topic many business owners put off estate planning. And we're diving now into how wills and trusts can actually become a love letter to your family and your legacy. Welcome, Chris. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:01:23] Speaker B: So let's talk about. First, tell us a little bit about your firm, why you started it, and how you have bring a lot of heart. You know, lawyers, we don't always think that way about law firms. So I love seeing the emotional side which faces so many business owners and individuals when they're facing estate planning. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. And it's a great first question. Thank you. The idea behind Integrity Law really focused our attention as professionals on our clients. It's very easy as a lawyer to get wrapped up into the nuances and the complexities of whatever we're trying to do and the highly specialized nature of something. But at the end of the day, our clients are coming to us really, for. For assistance with a problem that they want solved. And so it's really a paradigm change Integrity Law brings to the table where we first think of the client as a person and we analyze, you know, what emotional things are they going through at the moment with the problem they have, and what is the best way we can apply what we do to make them happy. Which happiness is a. We. We don't think of that that much in the law, but happiness is that emotion that really helps then settle us with whatever we're going through. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Oh, I love your answer. And I think a lot of professionals, CPAs, lawyers alike, don't always realize when clients come to us, they have to get past the emotion of the decisions they're trying to make before they can have clarity. So they get stuck. And it's. And I think it's part of our job to help them get comfortable with that so they can make a good decision. So thank you for putting clients first, and we do the same at my CPA firm. What would you say are some of the common misconceptions that small business owners have, or even young families, individuals, even if they're not self employed. About wills and trusts. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Oh, there's lots of them. Right. So, you know, you have the misconception that first of all, you have to have a lot of money to have a trust trust. You have the misconception that you have to be old to do estate planning. There's that trust work is very complex work. These are all misconceptions that people have. In reality, as soon as you start a family and you have a child that you're caring for, having your estate plan done means the world. Because God forbid something happens to them, those parents. A plan, a roadmap, if you would, needs to be in place to make things move appropriately through the administrative process and not just haphazardly, which was basically what would happen if there was no plan. Also, you know that trusts are for the wealthy, trusts are not for the wealthy. Trusts are used as an alternative administration. Excuse me, an alternative administration tool for planning estates. A will and a trust really go hand in hand. But a trust sometimes, depending on your jurisdiction, could just do it much better. [00:04:58] Speaker B: And that, I guess, you know, saves money. You know, it's interesting, we're talking about wills and a lot of, you know, a lot of clients that would come through our firm when they were younger didn't have wills. But I actually learned of a story where a young woman had, she had fairly young children. She had, she was on her second marriage and she had some income coming to her from estate and she died without a will. And, and that money came from her side of the family. And it ended up that half the estate went to the stepfather who really didn't need it, instead of her two young sons who did. And so could we talk about wills a minute? People put it off. They think they have time. You know, there's plenty of time, nothing go wrong. And actually they can really mess up life for the next generation if you don't think about it. [00:05:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, you know, in most of our states, almost all of them, the laws of succession is specifically intestate succession, and I hate using big words like that, but that is essentially the path in which your assets go when you don't have a will in place. So in many instances when people don't plan at all because they either didn't make time or for whatever the reason, the intestate succession, the path, if you would, of those assets don't always follow what you would assume. A great example of that is you have a husband and wife and Children and let's say the husband dies, you would assume, but wrongfully, of course, that everything would pass to the wife. Well, not necessarily. If it's. There's no plan in place of any kind of. Half of the estate, at least in Illinois, transfers to the surviving spouse and the other half transfers to the children. So there's a very unintended result that occurs from lack of planning. And there's many other instances like that. According to the laws of your state, and like I said, the laws of intestate succession tend to be fairly uniform from state to state. [00:07:22] Speaker B: That's interesting. So how expensive is it for those sitting on the fence about doing this? You know, they think I can't afford a lawyer or shouldn't go. What would you recommend to them as a first step towards taking care of this, especially when you have children and assets, rather than leaving it up to the state? [00:07:40] Speaker A: Right, absolutely. So you know what, one of the big quandaries the legal profession has is, is it's barrier to entry. We tend to be considered an expensive profession. And like I just said, that could be a barrier to some people getting these things done. And I'd rather see people have a plan than not have a plan. And I don't like the fact that money can be a barrier to entry. Now, that doesn't mean that we can service everybody, but there are tools out there depending on what your assets look like. And so if you can't afford an attorney, for instance, there are a ton of legal clinics throughout the country where you can go and you can get a simple will, simple estate planning documents. Also, you know, there's websites out there like Law Depot or Legal Zoom for very basic documents. The price point for those are very simple to get through. I mean, they're not expensive. But I would say that the caution I throw out there is if you can afford a lawyer but just don't want to pay for it, that might be pennywise pound foolish. So, you know, think about how you've been blessed in your life financially and pick the appropriate avenue to get your estate plans done. [00:09:13] Speaker B: That is excellent advice. And they should just get. Get it done or go to a clinic so they at least have their wishes down on. On paper. [00:09:22] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:23] Speaker B: How about if we end up with trust? I've been hearing a lot about living trust, and we might have more time in the next segment to go further into that. Can you tell us what a living trust is? [00:09:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. I want you to just think of a family agreement. I'm married, my wife Leslie, her and I have been together for 30. When Leslie and I decide how we want our estate to be divided among our children, we can put together what is considered like a family agreement. And that's where Leslie and I say, hey, when we die, we want our personal property to go here, we want our financial assets to go there, how we want them to go. And all of this, that is what a living trust is. It's nothing more than a husband and wife. And yet, by the way, you don't have to be married, but it's nothing more than your story put together in an agreement that tells how you want your assets to transfer. It's basically writing your legacy story. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. And how about we close out this segment with talking about, in your experience, how does integrating faith and values into estate planning resonate with entrepreneurs or any of the business owners listening if they're somewhat legacy minded? [00:10:43] Speaker A: You know, everyone's faith should be the cornerstone in which they apply everything to their life. And here at Integrity Law, we're very faith based driven, which means our core value system revolves around our Christian beliefs. And whether that would be putting others first, whether it would be doing the right thing, the basic, the basic definition of integrity itself. And so having those core values and then when you get together with a client who has similar core values, you both can look at one another in the eye and know right away that best interests are, are at heart. And so at integrity like I started this segment, putting the client first in what their concerns are is really at the core foundation of our faith and how we apply it to the practice. [00:11:47] Speaker B: Thank you so much for sharing such wisdom with us. How can people find you online? [00:11:54] Speaker A: The best way is our website and that's integritylaw.com have it behind me here. N T G R I t y law.com from there you have ways to text us, call us, email us, the whole gamut. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much for showing us that estate planning isn't just legal, it's personal. And to our viewers, don't wait until it's urgent to make it meaningful. Stay with us. Chris is going to come back and we're going to talk about business succession and transition essentials. Stay with us. Foreign hello. Welcome back to Balancing Acts. Love what you're watching. Catch this episode of Balancing acts and every Now Media TV show live or on demand 24 7. You can download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or Apple and get instant access to all our bilingual content in English and Spanish, from business to news. Lifestyle culture. It's streaming 24. 7 on your favorite podcast or right from nowmedia.com and Now Media TV. So when you're ready, just search Now Media TV on your Roku device and never miss a moment. I'm pleased to have Chris Nodu back with us. We were just talking about wills and estate planning and now we're going to go into business succession. You know, every business will leave their company someday. Everyone exits. It's all a matter of, you know, what type of exit that will be. And I'm here with Chris to talk about the legal groundwork that makes a smooth transition possible and protects what you've worked so hard to build. Hi, Chris. How about when should a business owner first consult on business succession from a legal standpoint? [00:14:21] Speaker A: You know, when a business owner sees that they're coming towards the end of their career cycle and you know, that is defined many ways by everybody. It could be by age, it could be by success level and wanting to transition out. It could be. There's a number of factors, but I always say that if you can plan a decade before you plan on exiting, then you have the appropriate time to structure your business, maintain the priorities, eliminate the fire drills and transition successfully. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a good window. And I do some certified exit planning advisory work. More like a coach of helping people look at their gaps. And some of the gaps that often come up aren't legal gaps. You know, their contracts, maybe they don't have. Everybody's an independent contractor. Some. I think employment issues are often some of the biggest gaps that a buyer would have a problem with. And the other is, you know, employment contracts and, or state and local tax taxes. Can you talk a little bit about what you see small business owners coming in with who might need to do some rearranging or restructuring of their contracts or their independent contractors or those kinds of things. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Absolutely. So you're spot on with regard to their contracts, their independent contractor, their employment agreements, things of that nature. You know, small businesses become extremely personal and so they take on the personality of their owners. And every one of us in our personality have flaws. The very thing that makes us maybe a great salesperson makes us lousy at back end bookkeeping, or what makes us a wonderful engineer in design makes us terrible at sales. Sales. And so, you know, because small businesses take on the personality of their owners, small businesses are flawed. So one really needs to stop, take a look at what are really my weaknesses. A great example of that is I am not a numbers person. And so if Left to my own device, my QuickBooks or my financial stuff would be on, you know, a napkin with crayons. And as you can imagine that, you know, speaking to a cpa, I'm sure that just puts, you know, shivers within you. But so it's really taking the time recognizing what the business owner's weaknesses are because their strengths are probably well in order and, and then putting the people, the systems, the pieces in place to build up those weaknesses. So the business really is well rounded at the end for a good exit. [00:17:38] Speaker B: Thank you, Chris, for sharing that about businesses. Taking on the personality of their owners and making sure that they kind of shore up their weaknesses in preparation for an exit at least 10 years in advance is wise advice. How about. Let's talk about some of those legal issues that often derail the value of a business during a sale or a transition. And I think that's important because only 20% of businesses that are listed for sale are actually sold and as many as 70 to 90% are often devalued during due diligence. So what do you see in your practice about that? [00:18:18] Speaker A: You know, the due diligence is a period of time where the buyer really, you know, looks under the hood and inspects the business and really determines whether or not if they purchase this business and take it over, will it continue to be as profitable as it currently is under the current ownership? And when a business is basically the personality and at the direction of one person, that is where a business can really get derailed during due diligence. And so things like the sales people. Do the sales people run autonomously or do. Are they micromanaged? What, how are the, the, the finances? Is, is the owner taking money out of the company whimsically or is there really a structured payroll and or draw system? Is there equal treatment among employees? And will the employees stick around when there's a change in ownership? How about the facilities? Are the facilities owned? Are they leased? Is the least reasonable and assignable? And then you could look at financing. Is the current business underwater financially? If it is, will this sale rights, will the sale of the business right side it. There's just so many elements that are front and center doing during due diligence. And I always like to say this, you're not going to hide anything. So an owner that thinks, oh, I just won't tell them that, you know, the water fountains broken as a silly example. No, no, no, a good buyer is going to really kick the tires, look under the hood, test every element of the business to Ensure that when they buy it, the business will continue at least at the same level it was, if not better, during the transition. [00:20:33] Speaker B: That's great advice. And you're right, you can't hide anything because you're going to have other lawyers and accountants on the other side of the buyer, and everybody's going to be digging and looking at all the dirty laundry. So that's right as well. You might as well do, as I say, reverse due diligence and go through those gaps early on and you can decide what to fix. That leads me a little bit to, you know, since 2020, a lot of businesses have taken Eidl loans, emergency disaster loans. Some are, you know, 100,000, some significantly more than that. Does that have an impact on their ability to sell, or is there anything they should do in advance to plan around that? [00:21:17] Speaker A: You know, first of all, I will admit I'm not an expert in those loans. I steered clear of them personally for my practice. I, I thought that they were good for the struggling business, who I, I think the government well and was well intended in offering these. But my personal opinion is they may have been overextended to businesses that possibly didn't need them. And that's where I think the problems come in, is if in, in a struggling business, those loans, they were to stop Gap. They were the measure to help keep the employees and really make the business continue to be viable. But unfortunately, some of those loans were not. The proceeds of them didn't go to their intended use, so they didn't go to shore up a business. It didn't it it more to benefit the owners of the company. And in those instances, I, I think during the sales process, it becomes one more impediment, one more thing that is analyzed under the microscope and can be looked at in such a negative fashion and, or the ability to clear it up may be so onerous that it derails a potential sale. [00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I think for those businesses who did use it properly and in their businesses, there's still probably some due diligence they have to do around whether the SBA will actually let them sell their business. So these are more things you shared with us, like a whole list of things that I thought were a great checklist on what could impede the value of a business. And I hope our listeners will actually take note of those. Write them down and take a look and see if they apply. How can people learn more about you and your firm online? [00:23:15] Speaker A: So we have a great [email protected] where we've actually done videos about each and every one of our lawyers and each lawyer tells their own personal testimony and story. So you get to actually look behind the scenes and meet our wives, know our hobbies and really get to know who Integrity Law is. And that again, just simply using the Internet and going to our website. And from there you can get a hold of us and ask us anything you need. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Thank you, Chris, for sharing insights with us. Succession planning is one of the most important and overlooked parts of growing a business. Better start sooner than you think it's necessary. Stay with us. When we come back, Chris and I are going to talk about real estate and loan documentation and commercial transactions. Stay with us. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Welcome back to Balancing Acts. I'm your host, Linda Hamilton, a CPA and certified exit planning advisor. And we're talking with Chris Nudo of Integrity Law Firm about legal planning, succession planning, wills. And we're going to talk now about real estate loan documentation, commercial transactions. Legal documents never feel glamorous, but they can make or break a business deal. Chris, help us understand how to protect our interests in real estate and financing. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Great questions. Yeah, you know, protecting oneself either on a buy or a sell in real estate really requires that you have an understanding of what the risks are. And, you know, one of the most, I would say misunderstood parts of any real estate transaction is the title insurance process. Everybody knows, hey, you know, we're closing at a title company in most states and, but the title insurance process is the research that is done to determine the quality of the title. And quality of title is measured by existing things like easements and liens and ownership and how many owners and many, many different factors that play into the quality of title. Now if you're selling, it's less important the quality of title because you're like, that's the buyer's problem. But understand that the buyer is going to want what most people would define as clean title, the very best title they can have. They don't want the seller's old liens. They, they want to make sure they can use the property in the best and highest value that they're purchasing it for. So, so when that's the case, to get the title as good as possible, the seller has to do a lot of work. And so in any real estate transaction, getting through the title elements are sometimes some of the bigger things that need to be done. Additionally, there's the contract. You know, contracts in the real estate field tend to feel very weighty. They're written 18 to 40 pages long and could be 10 point, 6 point, 12 point font. You know, and people just get lost in all these words. But the words matter. Understanding, you know, whether real estate taxes are paid up front or if they're paid in arrears, knowing how to deal with the municipalities and their rules and zoning issues, whether or not the buyer seller is selling with an entity such as an LLC or a corporation, and whether or not those entities have the appropriate authority to sell the real estate. There's just so many elements that play into whether or not a real estate transaction is done appropriately. [00:28:08] Speaker B: That's interesting. And I hadn't thought about that with title. So if you don't, you know, I guess that not having a clean title can derail the sale. Right. What. What else can go wrong with that? And some of the things you're talking about, I think sometimes people go through a lot of anxiety as they're leading up to closing on transactions and maybe even at closing, find something goes wrong. What would you say to people in trying to be able to prepare for that? [00:28:38] Speaker A: So, you know, real estate is handled very differently depending on what state you live in. And, you know, I can speak for Illinois, I can speak for New York and parts of New Jersey, where we're. But we're really unique in these jurisdictions wherein we use lawyers a lot for real estate. And so the lawyer steps in and really protects your interest by knowing what the contract says, knowing what the title is, what title issues are needed, and things like that. Now, let's talk about the majority, though, of the United States, where lawyers are not involved. How do you protect yourself? And the answer is you need to really advocate for yourself. Now, the realtors in jurisdictions have certain amounts of responsibility, and they know based on their experience what needs to be done. But you know what, they're not advocating on your behalf. The title company. They know what clean title looks like. They know how it needs to happen. And. But with jurisdictions that don't use lawyers, the title company is not going to advocate on your behalf. So to. To really get through a good real estate transaction in basically the majority of the United States, one needs to really learn how to advocate for themselves and really take the time to understand the issues. And then they'll have less anxiety because they'll be more prepared. [00:30:21] Speaker B: And I would imagine it could it hurt to hire a lawyer in those states even though they're not required? [00:30:27] Speaker A: You know? No. Yes and no. It's a tricky question because I've been through this many times. So take states that border Illinois, like Wisconsin and Indiana, and where they don't use lawyers. In Indiana, a lawyer showing up to help with a real estate transaction is fairly welcome. In Wisconsin, you're like a fish out of water. They don't know what to do with the lawyer. So every jurisdiction is different and you just gotta kind of work with where you're at. I wish there was a more uniform approach, but unfortunately with real estate there's not. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Well, I think the best advice you gave is to advocate for yourself, which means to educate yourself as well on the process in your own state and how that works and how you can maybe get informed up front even if you don't have a lawyer going with you. How about. I think you kind of talked about the hidden risks in transactional documentation that entrepreneurs overlook. And I don't know if that's just real estate. You know, business owners sign a lot of contracts, and in my experience, vendor contracts, corporate contracts, they often don't have lawyers look at any of these things. What are some of those risks? [00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, so reading a contract and may I say, going to the dentist sometimes feel painfully similar. And I'm not picking on dentists. I'm just illustratively saying business owners won't take the time to really read a contract. And I believe there's two main reasons. The first reason is they're emotionally involved in the transaction. So in their mind, it's just another contract. I'm going to sign it. I've already talked to the people I'm signing the contract with. I know what the deal is, and for sure they wouldn't put something in the contract that would be inconsistent with what we've talked about. So, by the way, everything I just said there should resonate as wrong. But the reality is our emotions into the transaction drive that kind of irrational behavior. The second thing that is really a tripwire is in these contracts there will be things that nobody really intended to be a tripwire, but they are, for example, automatically renewing periods. You know, I almost signed a contract recently for my firm and I was like making the same mistakes I'm telling you about, so, you know, we're not immune from making the same mistakes. And I got to the end of the contract and it said, and by the way, annually this contract will renew at a certain price unless terminated early. Well, I had no intention whatsoever of signing up with this company on a annual basis. So, you know, that would have been a problem had I not taken the few minutes to really read it and find out what's in here that we didn't discuss. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that provision is in everything now it seems. Tax, research, just so many things. Subscription order, your, your IT contract for computer service. It's everywhere. And so you really kind of lose your right to talk about it or it just all keeps auto renewing because you're not on top of it. I'm so glad you mentioned that last question. When should a business owner involve an attorney to structure their financing or their loan agreements? Like when is it really critical to do that besides reading the contract like you can just talked about? [00:34:31] Speaker A: Well, you know, loan agreements are just more contracts, right? They're just a different form of contract. And when you are doing especially commercial loans because you mentioned the business owner a lot of times those loan document, those loans are documented with a program called Laser Pro. And Laser Pro is a fancy program that banks were sold decades ago and they still use them today. And it allows less educated people to input information and generate very complex loan documents. The problem with that is sometimes it's a checkbox that makes the difference in what the loan document says. And if you have an uneducated or a less sophisticated bank personnel generating those documents, those documents will come out incorrect. And if you don't have a lawyer involved reviewing them, you'll never know that you're signing documents that don't mirror your agreement with the bank. And I'll tell you, they all look the same. So I can give you three sets of documents generated by Laser Pro. And if you're looking at them from a physical standpoint, they all look identical. It's not until you read the words that you determine that one set of documents means something completely different than another. [00:36:08] Speaker B: That is fascinating. I appreciate how you made the fine print seem a little less scary. And for every business owner watching, you want to read your documents. You want to understand your risk before you go into this, Chris, how can people find you online? [00:36:25] Speaker A: You know what? We'd love for them to visit our [email protected] and click the Contact us. And we would look forward to responding to you. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Thank you so much and stay with us for one more segment on legal issues. Thank you. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Welcome back to Balancing Acts. We hope you love what you're watching and you can catch this episode of Balancing acts and every Now Media TV show live or on demand 24. 7. You can download the Now Media TV app on Roku or Apple and get instant access to all our bilingual content in English and in Spanish. From business to news to lifestyle and culture. It's streaming 24. 7 on your favorite podcast or you can get it right from the NOW Media TV website whenever you're ready. Search NOW Media TV on Roku and never miss a moment. We're talking with Chris Nudo about his, his law firm, integrity and unbalancing acts. We believe values belong in business. It is about balancing life, balancing your personal values, balancing your business life, because business is, is personal. And Chris has built a law firm rooted in integrity. And today he's going to share how faith, purpose and legal practice can coexist in a powerful way. Thank you, Chris. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. [00:38:19] Speaker B: How, how. What's the story behind integrity law? And how does value inform daily operations? [00:38:27] Speaker A: So, you know, integrity law, the concept of really being very outward about integrity really started back in 2006. I was sitting at my computer trying to decide how to create what was one word that meant do the right thing all the time. And you know, after sitting there and pondering it for a while, integrity came to mind. And that was the beginning of the concept of integrity law. And it was at that moment I was fairly early, if you would, in my walk with Christ, in my faith journey. And it was now time for me to take not only the faith that I had discovered through the Bible, through Christ, it was time to take that not just to the family, but to the business. And at the time I was working for a regular law firm, and I say it that way because the concept of bringing your faith to the law firm was considered taboo. You don't do that. You keep your faith at home, or maybe you keep your faith at church, but you don't take it to work with you. And, but it was then in 2006 that I said, you know, that's not right, we should. That. That is actually very hypocritical. And so it was a slow journey for me to start integrating the values. The same values that you raise your children, the same way that you treat your wife. The. The same values that make you a good human being. You want to apply those in equal measure in the workplace. And then. And that evolved to where we're at today with integrity law. [00:40:37] Speaker B: And I think that's so important. You know, we talk often. I've started my practice close to 38 years ago. And you know, there have been talk over the years about core values and how, how doing business is just a part of you. And so I think it's so important what you just shared. How do you balance legal advocacy with pastoral sensitivity when faith based clients face difficult situations? [00:41:04] Speaker A: Sure, absolutely. So as we started the show early on, it's really first identifying where the client is at. And you can often measure that from an emotional standpoint. And often the faith element of what we do is having the ability sometimes just to listen and not want to fix the problem. I am the ultimate fixer. You bring me a problem, my go to is instant fix. But when you're really trying to help somebody, both on the legal and pastoral side, step one is to really listen. Because in the listening you will determine the heart of the person and you will determine the direction it should go. Oftentimes after I get done listening, the fix that I would have recommended or applied originally doesn't fit. Because what I realize is they don't want it fixed. They're good at being in the problem that they have or many times the problem isn't really a problem. And so by, by taking time, understanding who the person is, where they're at and what they're looking for is the best application we have in applying our faith to their problem in a legal setting. [00:42:41] Speaker B: Oh that, that's brilliant. Yes. Listening. Listening is one of the key skills I think every professional should have in providing service so they know how they can help their clients and customers. I love how you describe that. You know, sometimes the problem isn't really a problem once they finish talking it out and it's a different fix. So it's important to solve the right problem for them. Do you also, you also work with ministries or nonprofits and church entities? How do you work with them differently than traditional legal clients? [00:43:16] Speaker A: Believe it or not, they're actually very similar to traditional legal clients. Their solutions are a little different, but the application's the same. For example, churches where they fail the most is in employment issues. Sound familiar? Yes. You know, they also fail in loan documentation. When they take out loans. They also vendor agreements. Oh my gosh. Pastors, no offense to them, but they tend not to want to. They'll read every treatise written by the Apostle Paul or, or any, any current day pastor. They will learn the study of the books of the Bible, but they won't read their copier lease agreement. And so therein lies a problem. And then for a lot of ministries, they really like to take in gifts and understanding the appropriate documentation so they don't over promise with gifts that are given, whether it be a legacy gift, whether it be a current gift. These are all the legal areas in the not for profit church world and there's many, many others, but that's just a handful that we deal with every day. [00:44:36] Speaker B: And it's so important for Churches and nonprofits to actually get legal help and advice or personal accounting and tax advice, too. Churches don't have to file tax returns, but it doesn't mean all those things you just described aren't happening. And so they can protect themselves from getting in trouble. We've been talking so much about your legal services and your practice, but, you know, as I often say about myself as well, you're also a business owner. You know, your law firm provides legal services, but it's a business. And how has authentic branding helped you share your faith and story and helped you build trust in your legal practice? [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So really, the struggle we all have, and I say that because it makes me feel better, but it's really my struggle is just being the person I want to be and not be not. And try to represent this image of somebody who then isn't that person. That hypocritical thing that happens to so many of us. And so, first of all, having a brand that is very loud and Integrity Law is pretty loud because you're saying that you're setting a very high standard, which is this, this integrity. And I go one step further because I need to hold myself to a high bar because essentially I'm a weak person. And so my license plate says integrity. And so it makes you think twice about the guy you're going to cut off or, you know, you know, pressing through that yellow light because you're in a hurry. You know, you. It really helps me be more grounded in the person that I'm representing and the person that people count on me to be. Now, does that mean that I'm this perfect individual? Far be it, actually. But at least I have a goal, I have a standard, and the business that I am running holds to those same core values. [00:46:53] Speaker B: Oh, thank you for sharing your story with us. And I think it reminds me of how important it is that doing the right thing in business is never out of style. Right. Thank you for sharing your artistic. Your authenticity with us. How can people find out more about your law firm? And maybe one tip for our guests in parting on how they can start finding an attorney if they need help. [00:47:19] Speaker A: Sure. So we are on Facebook and we're on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can find us in Integrity Law. I love our website personally, because that's where we really put most, if not all of our content for viewers to be able to get to know us the best. We also have a YouTube channel with hundreds of videos that can help the DIYer and things like that. So if you're looking for a lawyer. Honestly, hiring a lawyer is I think similar to buying any product and in today's environment finding a lawyer with good reviews. I know that might just sound funny but you know a good lawyer has clients who brag about their experiences with that lawyer. So use the Internet, read the Reviews, read the 1 star, read the 5 stars, read the 3 stars so you can really get a sense of who the firm and or attorneys are, what their strengths and weaknesses are. That's in my opinion the way I would hire a lawyer if I had to go about doing it. [00:48:39] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that integrity. Law with an N and I hope all of our listeners gained a lot of value. I myself am going to visit those YouTube channels. I can't wait to check it out. Thank you so much for spending time with us today today. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:48:56] Speaker B: And join us again next week for another episode of Balancing Acts.